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Board building, design, technical innovations and new equipment. Post and discuss your latest creations, ideas, designs and builds here(Pictures not required LOL)

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Brennig
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Post by Brennig » Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:15 am

Apparently they're 2 kg, according to the internet ...
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Ben
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Post by Ben » Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:18 am

unthinkable thats our deck could be lighter.
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Brennig
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Post by Brennig » Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:28 am

I just need to shape it, (shave of some more grams) and then I'll post a pic.
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MY DINOSAUR THEORY

Dinosaurs are from the future, they built a time machine and travelled back in time, unfortunately they miss judged the coordinates and got stuck underground.

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Brennig
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Post by Brennig » Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:51 am

The deck is shaped! Even lighter than I imagined. 240 grams, or 8 oz, and ready for pressing!
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Russian Wives for Sale

MY DINOSAUR THEORY

Dinosaurs are from the future, they built a time machine and travelled back in time, unfortunately they miss judged the coordinates and got stuck underground.

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BgSurfer
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Post by BgSurfer » Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:23 pm

Very cool Brennig. Keep the pics coming -- one with the basalt in the bag too ( :cool: ).

I'm shooting for a deck weight in the 900-1360 g range (2.5-3.0 lb) eventually. While I'm still using aluminum tips, they will add 454 g. But with an EPS foam core and wood frame/skeleton, I believe I could get a LB skateboard in the 2.5-3.0 lb range. Too humid and cold for good epoxy work in the winter -- plan to start up again in spring if my day-job doesn't get in the way.

BTW what is you glassing schedule? How many layers each side and what was the cloth weight again in "oz" ( :rolleyes: )?
~~~~~

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Brennig
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Post by Brennig » Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:57 pm

Ummm... At the moment it is this - Top to bottom.

Formica
21 oz wrap (bottom up)
21 oz wrap (bottom up)
12 oz wrap (bottom up)
21 oz
12 oz

balsa
12 oz wrap (top down)
12 oz
21 oz
21 oz


The "wrap" is where it wraps the rails so there is only an inch or two. The ones that form a full ply are in bold.
Russian Wives for Sale

MY DINOSAUR THEORY

Dinosaurs are from the future, they built a time machine and travelled back in time, unfortunately they miss judged the coordinates and got stuck underground.

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BgSurfer
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Post by BgSurfer » Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:21 pm

That's a lot of cloth. Seems like I read at SF standard for foams is about 20-oz per side. I could be wrong though. Maybe it was 30 but that sounds heavy for some reason.
~~~~~

Keeping the Stoke
http://www.bgsurf.blogspot.com/2009/10/street-carver-keeping-stoke-riding.html
The older I get, the better I was...
Ride what you like. :cool:[color="Green"][/color]

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Brennig
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Post by Brennig » Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:29 pm

I'll do some research ...
Russian Wives for Sale

MY DINOSAUR THEORY

Dinosaurs are from the future, they built a time machine and travelled back in time, unfortunately they miss judged the coordinates and got stuck underground.

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BgSurfer
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Post by BgSurfer » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:16 pm

Brennig wrote:I'll do some research ...


Just finished going through my saved SF thread links and did a Google search to boot. I have found glass schedules from 20-30 oz per side for foam cores. Most are using triax or layered uni and biax.

Didn't keep the link I remembered and wanted from a commercial builder -- he said either 20 or 30 as I recall (?). Always.

I know it is in this range. Will depend on the longitudinal strength of your core though.
~~~~~

Keeping the Stoke
http://www.bgsurf.blogspot.com/2009/10/street-carver-keeping-stoke-riding.html
The older I get, the better I was...
Ride what you like. :cool:[color="Green"][/color]

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Brennig
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Post by Brennig » Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:10 pm

Formica
21 oz
12 oz
Balsa
21 oz
21 oz

It's annoying that I could only get twill and plain weave, some uni would have been nice. Might have sourced some 2mm bamboo too :D
Russian Wives for Sale

MY DINOSAUR THEORY

Dinosaurs are from the future, they built a time machine and travelled back in time, unfortunately they miss judged the coordinates and got stuck underground.

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BgSurfer
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Post by BgSurfer » Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:16 pm

This is one of the old SF links I kept -- still not the commercial guy's rec. But maybe better.
Check out his hollow-core glassing schedule.

http://www.silverfishlongboarding.com/forum/longboard-board-building-q-discussions/195530-thats-right-no-core.html
~~~~~

Keeping the Stoke
http://www.bgsurf.blogspot.com/2009/10/street-carver-keeping-stoke-riding.html
The older I get, the better I was...
Ride what you like. :cool:[color="Green"][/color]

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Brennig
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Post by Brennig » Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:18 am

30 oz either end, I think 40 oz of Basalt would be the equivalent. I think I prefer the layup I just posted, I can see myself laying it in my head. It should work, all in one layup. That's 500 grams of Basalt, what is the fabric:epoxy ratio usually? 50%? If so that is 250 g. So by my very rough calculations it could be the first ever mountain board sub 1 kg, but I doubt it. With the formica, I hope it will be around 1.2 kg, the formica is necessary and heavy but it looks cool and is durable. A few boards down the line I could commit to making a very light deck.
Russian Wives for Sale

MY DINOSAUR THEORY

Dinosaurs are from the future, they built a time machine and travelled back in time, unfortunately they miss judged the coordinates and got stuck underground.

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BgSurfer
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Post by BgSurfer » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:12 am

Just reference. You should use the glassing schedule you want. It is your experiment, you should do it.

Another thought. You might try E or Carbon uni under an outer layer of basalt: 20 basalt > 10 uni > core < 10 uni < 20 basalt.
~~~~~

Keeping the Stoke
http://www.bgsurf.blogspot.com/2009/10/street-carver-keeping-stoke-riding.html
The older I get, the better I was...
Ride what you like. :cool:[color="Green"][/color]

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Brennig
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Post by Brennig » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:24 am

Carbon is too expensive, glass is nasty. I might try and get some carbon uni but is 5 times more expensive for something 1/2 of the weight.

10 oz CF is around £30
20 oz Basalt is £6

And there isn't a huge difference in strength, plus Basalt is more enviro friendly. I would like to get some flax or jute, also sourced some 2 mm vlam bamboo for £8 a sheet. I have some kevlar tape too, got a few ideas on how to use it, definitely a good material for mountain boarding.

If I ever sold boards I could afford CF because I'd make my money back.
Russian Wives for Sale

MY DINOSAUR THEORY

Dinosaurs are from the future, they built a time machine and travelled back in time, unfortunately they miss judged the coordinates and got stuck underground.

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BgSurfer
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Post by BgSurfer » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:53 am

Just meant since you can't get uni basalt, you could use another type of uni under to improve longitudinal stiffness.

Did a quick Google on "epoxy cloth ratio:"

http://www.aeromarineproducts.com/epoxy-faq.htm
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=600489
http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/CompositeRockets/message/10473?var=1
~~~~~

Keeping the Stoke
http://www.bgsurf.blogspot.com/2009/10/street-carver-keeping-stoke-riding.html
The older I get, the better I was...
Ride what you like. :cool:[color="Green"][/color]

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Brennig
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Post by Brennig » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:57 am

Thank you, maybe that's where I got the 50% from. If I do use 30 oz per side, that is 237.5 grams, 237.5 grams of resin and 240 grams of balsa. 715 grams total :O Not bad.
Russian Wives for Sale

MY DINOSAUR THEORY

Dinosaurs are from the future, they built a time machine and travelled back in time, unfortunately they miss judged the coordinates and got stuck underground.

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BgSurfer
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Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 12:55 pm

Post by BgSurfer » Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:04 am

That would be a sweet weight.

Here's another ratio link for sufboards and hand lay-up:

http://www2.swaylocks.com/forums/epoxycloth-ratio-question
~~~~~

Keeping the Stoke
http://www.bgsurf.blogspot.com/2009/10/street-carver-keeping-stoke-riding.html
The older I get, the better I was...
Ride what you like. :cool:[color="Green"][/color]

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Brennig
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Post by Brennig » Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:09 am

Hold on I did it wrong, I did it right first time but changed it.

It's 237.5 either side. So 1190 grams, sounds more realistic. The shape of the deck isn't the most lightweight too, I think it is possible to get below 1 kg. Better shape, 10 uni carbon instead of 12 oz basalt twill.
Russian Wives for Sale

MY DINOSAUR THEORY

Dinosaurs are from the future, they built a time machine and travelled back in time, unfortunately they miss judged the coordinates and got stuck underground.

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BgSurfer
Posts: 3353
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 12:55 pm

Post by BgSurfer » Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:12 am

Brennig wrote:Hold on I did it wrong, I did it right first time but changed it.

It's 237.5 either side. So 1190 grams, sounds more realistic. The shape of the deck isn't the most lightweight too, I think it is possible to get below 1 kg. Better shape, 10 uni carbon instead of 12 oz basalt twill.


I'd say that would be a good result and doable.

I think you said you used epoxy to set the balsa core shape. That had to add some weight.

You might be able to go lighter with hot-wired EPS foam cores. Balsa is 3 or 4 times heavier than EPS. But shapes may be limited.
~~~~~

Keeping the Stoke
http://www.bgsurf.blogspot.com/2009/10/street-carver-keeping-stoke-riding.html
The older I get, the better I was...
Ride what you like. :cool:[color="Green"][/color]

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Brennig
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Post by Brennig » Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:24 am

Balsa is 3 or 4 times stronger too, I have the heaviest weight balsa, 250 g/m^3, I think, it's 3.5 times lighter than maple. If all goes to plan I will try aramid honeycombs too, 230 g/m^3, but very strong and cool. Also some linear foam, I think it's Airex R.63, a lot more durable and fatigue resistant than cross linked (most) foams, I think Wefunk uses it.

The resin used to fill the balsa with be minuscule, I pictured it being a lot but now I've cut the deck it shouldn't be much.
Russian Wives for Sale

MY DINOSAUR THEORY

Dinosaurs are from the future, they built a time machine and travelled back in time, unfortunately they miss judged the coordinates and got stuck underground.

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