Half way from volcano to board.

Board building, design, technical innovations and new equipment. Post and discuss your latest creations, ideas, designs and builds here(Pictures not required LOL)

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BgSurfer
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Post by BgSurfer » Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:41 am

For light, I think you need to look at your core as the form for your composite skins. The hollow core I posted the link for relies almost solely on its shell. With the right outer shell, core strength shouldn't matter much.

http://www.silverfishlongboarding.com/forum/longboard-board-building-q-discussions/195530-thats-right-no-core.html

Look at a surfboard. 2-3 pcf core with a 1/8"-1/4" basswood/balsa stringer down the center, and FG 4+6 deck with 4 (or 6) bottom. They withstand amazing forces (20-ft waves). The skins minimize parallel surface movement relative to the core. The stringer forms an I-beam with the skins.

Of course thickness comes into play. Strength/stiffness is directly proportional to the cube of thickness/beam depth.
~~~~~

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BgSurfer
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Post by BgSurfer » Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:56 am

Brennig wrote:I have the heaviest weight balsa, 250 g/m^3,


I think your conversions may be off (grams per cubic "meter"?).

2-3 pcf foam is way heavier than that.
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Brennig
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Post by Brennig » Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:15 pm

Sorry 225 KG per cubic meter :D

R.63 is 140 kg/m^3, might be able to get some.

After months of reading, end grain balsa looked the best for mountain boards, cheap, very strong, light and easy to work with. Aramid honeycombs would be second, good dampening, best strength to weight, but expensive.

Surfboards are thicker, bigger and have different forces. The force on a mountain board travels through the trucks, the middle suffers the most, with a surfboard they are more evenly spread.

Surfboards are brittle aren't they? You can easily snap one by catching it on a child on the way down to the surf :D I'm no expert though.
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BgSurfer
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Post by BgSurfer » Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:29 pm

R value doesn't help me much. Foam properties I mostly look at are density and minimum compressive strength.

BTW how do you wet-out your cloth for vac bagging? I've never used vac bags for anything.

And surfboards usually buckle in the middle.

That hollow-core has no core. ;)

Foam with a bit of skeleton (to reduce glassing schedule/weight) is how I plan to go lighter. Maybe air instead of foam for the final experiment.

Something to consider: what is the weight of glass+resin skin relative to wood as a skeleton.
~~~~~

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The older I get, the better I was...
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Brennig
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Post by Brennig » Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:32 pm

Buckling is down to shear strength? I think it is, core failure.

R 63 is just the name of the foam, like C 70 or T 90.

http://www.corematerials.3acomposites.com/airex-r63-asia.html
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Brennig
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Post by Brennig » Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:37 pm

Cheeky editing :D

Wouldn't buckling happen because of the lack of core?

Forgot to answer your question too, I will hand lay-up, like surfboards but the vaccum bag squeezes out unnecessary epoxy giving you a strong, light bond with good resin ratios.
Russian Wives for Sale

MY DINOSAUR THEORY

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BgSurfer
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Post by BgSurfer » Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:40 pm

Brennig wrote:Buckling is down to shear strength? I think it is, core failure.


Actually I believe it is core/skin compression failure. Shear is more likely to create delams. A surfboard break is fairly clean across the middle.
~~~~~

Keeping the Stoke
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The older I get, the better I was...
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Brennig
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Post by Brennig » Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:47 pm

But a good core would prevent buckling from occurring.
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BgSurfer
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Post by BgSurfer » Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:55 pm

Brennig wrote:But a good core would prevent buckling from occurring.


Glassing schedule for surfboards is very light. Total weight is very light. Takes a lot of force to break a surfboard. A 6' (approx 19" wide) surfboard can weigh in at about 6 lb (2.72 kg).

I think skin failure is the the main compression failure for surfboards.

And then there is that pesky but sturdy LB hollow core... :p

How are you wetting out your cloth for vacuum work?
~~~~~

Keeping the Stoke
http://www.bgsurf.blogspot.com/2009/10/street-carver-keeping-stoke-riding.html
The older I get, the better I was...
Ride what you like. :cool:[color="Green"][/color]

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Brennig
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Post by Brennig » Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:26 pm

One at a time due to the way I am wrapping the rails. I'm going to try like a mini surfboard, the way they laminate is like an art, I love watching it. Just got to make sure I don't distort the weave.
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Dinosaurs are from the future, they built a time machine and travelled back in time, unfortunately they miss judged the coordinates and got stuck underground.

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BgSurfer
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Post by BgSurfer » Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:41 pm

Brennig wrote:One at a time due to the way I am wrapping the rails. I'm going to try like a mini surfboard, the way they laminate is like an art, I love watching it. Just got to make sure I don't distort the weave.


One layer at a time in the bag? All layers? One side at a time? Or both sides (top & bottom) at once?
~~~~~

Keeping the Stoke
http://www.bgsurf.blogspot.com/2009/10/street-carver-keeping-stoke-riding.html
The older I get, the better I was...
Ride what you like. :cool:[color="Green"][/color]

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Brennig
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Post by Brennig » Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:45 pm

I will wet each layer separately, but vacuum bag it all at once. Sorry if I confused you.
Russian Wives for Sale

MY DINOSAUR THEORY

Dinosaurs are from the future, they built a time machine and travelled back in time, unfortunately they miss judged the coordinates and got stuck underground.

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BgSurfer
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Post by BgSurfer » Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:58 pm

Brennig wrote:I will wet each layer separately, but vacuum bag it all at once. Sorry if I confused you.


Top and bottom separately or simultaneously?

Spread resin with squeegee or brush?

I prefer squeegee.
~~~~~

Keeping the Stoke
http://www.bgsurf.blogspot.com/2009/10/street-carver-keeping-stoke-riding.html
The older I get, the better I was...
Ride what you like. :cool:[color="Green"][/color]

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Brennig
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Post by Brennig » Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:02 pm

Squeegee, top and bottom together.
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Dinosaurs are from the future, they built a time machine and travelled back in time, unfortunately they miss judged the coordinates and got stuck underground.

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Jasper
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Post by Jasper » Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:56 pm

wow this sounds really interesting, would love more pics.

Saying you perfected the design how easy/quick/slow would they be to make for sale?

with the right strength/weight i could see these appealing a lot to kiters and freestylers.

also do you ever hit jumps? would be interesting to see if they pop/hold up etc to a bit of freestyle
My site: [color="Red"]OneDayMedia[/color]

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Brennig
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Post by Brennig » Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:13 pm

I used to hit jumps, but then I realized freeriding is much cooler. I'd be happy to make one and hand it out for people to try, just make sure LB4UL doesn't get it. Once I get a table router and experience it could be done in 2 days.

I am thinking of adding Carbon stringers between the bindings to add more pop, but I'll get this board done first before getting carried away.
Russian Wives for Sale

MY DINOSAUR THEORY

Dinosaurs are from the future, they built a time machine and travelled back in time, unfortunately they miss judged the coordinates and got stuck underground.

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leapb4ulook
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Post by leapb4ulook » Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:25 pm

That's just cruel
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Brennig
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Post by Brennig » Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:41 pm

What about that poor Trampa brakeboard in your dungeon?
Russian Wives for Sale

MY DINOSAUR THEORY

Dinosaurs are from the future, they built a time machine and travelled back in time, unfortunately they miss judged the coordinates and got stuck underground.

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Jasper
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Post by Jasper » Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:12 pm

Brennig wrote:What about that poor Trampa brakeboard in your dungeon?


ive tried that, its horrible..think i probably needed more than 2 mins on it though...on terrain not easily rideable without a brake.

just sounds like your hitting on some really interesting build ups, starting to venture in to the snowboard world of layerups with different bits in different areas.

Not that i know much about any of it, but using basalt is awesome so would love to try these boards some time
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The 6th degree
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Post by The 6th degree » Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:04 am

Hi Brennig - if you fancy something different you can make me a NoSno custom 12*790 style deck?

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