My GI Multi-hubs Arrived

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BgSurfer
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My GI Multi-hubs Arrived

Post by BgSurfer » Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:51 pm

We have been discussing this in the Buggley thread. Felt this topic deserved its own thread. MBS appears to have discontinued their heavy duty Trispoke hub, which I use for Cheng Shin street slicks.
Buggley thread link:
http://surfingdirt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3371

Dave at GI said he had some old inventory of GI heavy duty wide Multi-hubs left from a few years back. Like the MBS Trispokes, the GI Multi-hubs will accomodate 8-3.00-4 Cheng Shin slicks as well. In fact, I bought my first set of Cheng Shin "tires/slicks" from GI (just not the hubs). Dave then offered his Surfing Dirt Bruthas a good price on these old-style hubs and Cheng Shin slicks...

Gentleman,

My GI Multi-hubs arrived while I was out ripping a winter afternoon session.

Just opened the box and took a quick look at the hubs. I immediately noticed the hubs looked wider -- could it be. I measured quickly with a hand ruler. They appear to be 1/8"-3/16" wider. Sweet this should give me more contact patch with a 1/4-3/8" wider wheel base overall for both hubs mounted -- wheel track. This may actually give me a noticeable increase in cutback traction and tire contact patch, bump my pressure a few more pounds and bump speed a little more :D.

Just by holding the GI hubs they feel a wee bit heavier. The construction looks more solid too.

On the kitchen scale, I got some weights. GI Multi-hub weighs about 2.0 oz more than a MBS Trispoke. Weight includes bearings.

MBS Tri ~= 10.5 oz
GI Tri ~= 12.5 oz
Until they have passed the surf-style torture test, I will give this deal an interim thumbs up.

More detailed specs later. Gotta pour a fine ale right now after a sweet winter surf-style session on a winter afternoon. :cool: :D :cool:

Looks good so far Dave...

Mahalo nui loa



~~~~~
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BryceAZ
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Post by BryceAZ » Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:50 pm

Dave rocks, you rock. Can't wait to hear how they work for ya.

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Post by Jimmy Chaos » Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:18 am

BryceAZ wrote:Dave rocks, .


I have to agree Dave is the coolest Sales Manager for specialty domestic and international distribution accounts That I have ever dealt with.:)
.............:D................
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Post by BgSurfer » Sat Jan 01, 2011 1:40 pm

Went back and got more precise specs/measurements for both GI and MBS Trispokes. After more time examining the GI Trispokes, they definitely look more solid and uniform than the MBS Trispoke -- seem more suitable for a gravity cart -- a bit heavier too. Maybe Dave would give us the name of the factory that produced these hubs should gravity carts and surf-style carvers become popular among a small group of riders in our circles.

Here are final specs:

Hub rim to rim inner width:

GI = 2-1/32"
MBS = 1-7/8" (values less consistent around perimeter)

First stair-step diameter:

GI = 3-15/16"
MBS = 3-29/32"

Second stair-step diameter:
GI = 3-11/16"
MBS = 3-11/16"

Weight (kitchen scale accuracy, with 1.0 oz increments):

GI ~= 12.5 oz
MBS ~= 10.5 oz



~~~~~
~~~~~

Keeping the Stoke
http://www.bgsurf.blogspot.com/2009/10/street-carver-keeping-stoke-riding.html
The older I get, the better I was...
Ride what you like. :cool:[color="Green"][/color]

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belac
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Post by belac » Sat Jan 01, 2011 7:47 pm

i've got a set of these as well, solid enough to knock out an elephant with. mine are currently unused but i'm trying to track down some tubes for ten inch sack barrow stlye tyres i found, then i'll use these as the hubs. saying that, does anyone KNOW if 9 inch tubes can be used for ten inch tyres at all?

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Post by DirtDave » Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:08 pm

BgSurfer wrote:Maybe Dave would give us the name of the factory that produced these hubs


create the demand and we may reproduce....
stylezofnz wrote: (will throw in a free blowy to sweeten the deal :D)

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gravity
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Post by gravity » Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:16 pm

Bg

I did a little go-kart/lawn equpment tire search and you are correct, a lot of these slicks are designed for lawn equipment. In karting the rental tires are inexpensive and relatively hard (68 durometer looks common). They last a long time but give less bite than top racing tires (35-60 durometer). I think the 8-3.00-4 is designed for lawn equpment so I suspect a 68 or higher durometer. For the gravity kart I am not sure this is a problem; inexpensive is good, durability and long life are good, and they probably roll a little faster than soft tires. Some guys apparently have been taking decomissioned shifter karts, pulling the motor, cutting the rear axle in half, and mounting a disc brake on each half. The karts are very fast in corners and braking but loose time when coasting.

Their are liquid preperations one can also use to soften tires. I guess their use is very common in racing, even when tracks prohibit their use.

The other issue I have is how will a tire designed for 10mph perform at 50mph? For the gravity kart I am still considering the azusa 4" wheel with 4.10x3.50-4 slicks, they will handle the speed but are heavier.

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Post by BgSurfer » Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:23 pm

gravity wrote:Bg

I did a little go-kart/lawn equpment tire search and you are correct, a lot of these slicks are designed for lawn equipment. In karting the rental tires are inexpensive and relatively hard (68 durometer looks common). They last a long time but give less bite than top racing tires (35-60 durometer). I think the 8-3.00-4 is designed for lawn equpment so I suspect a 68 or higher durometer. For the gravity kart I am not sure this is a problem; inexpensive is good, durability and long life are good, and they probably roll a little faster than soft tires. Some guys apparently have been taking decomissioned shifter karts, pulling the motor, cutting the rear axle in half, and mounting a disc brake on each half. The karts are very fast in corners and braking but loose time when coasting.

Their are liquid preperations one can also use to soften tires. I guess their use is very common in racing, even when tracks prohibit their use.

The other issue I have is how will a tire designed for 10mph perform at 50mph? For the gravity kart I am still considering the azusa 4" wheel with 4.10x3.50-4 slicks, they will handle the speed but are heavier.


For testing a prototype of a lightweight gravity-cart design, doesn't seem like you could go wrong with a set Dave's GI multihubs. Seems like with a lighter cart, you wouldn't need as much traction in the turns and it might be easier to control.

The Cheng Shin 8-3.00-4s are 4-ply Load Range B rated. I'm guessing a riding mower weighs in the neighborhood of 300 lb without the rider. Not sure how that can be translated into mph.

Just noticed that the tire has "Standard Rim 2.15" printed on the side. I'm guessing that means 2.15 inches.

Max inflation is 30 psi cold. I run the front tires at a 33 psi max.



~~~~~
~~~~~

Keeping the Stoke
http://www.bgsurf.blogspot.com/2009/10/street-carver-keeping-stoke-riding.html
The older I get, the better I was...
Ride what you like. :cool:[color="Green"][/color]

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Post by gravity » Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:03 pm

Bg

Those real wide kart tires run quite low psi maybe 15. If you do not stagger your psi with front higher than rear what gets loose, rear? I found a pretty good spec. sheet on a carlisle 8-3.00-4, which I have since lost, but from memory the load rating was quite high, I think double or better our intensions. It did say 10mph, but it was designed for turf, no reason to brag up a higher speed. A 2.5" rim was recommended as I recall and that should be an inside measurement. If I find it again I will post it.

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Post by gravity » Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:20 pm

i've got a set of these as well, solid enough to knock out an elephant with. mine are currently unused but i'm trying to track down some tubes for ten inch sack barrow stlye tyres i found, then i'll use these as the hubs. saying that, does anyone KNOW if 9 inch tubes can be used for ten inch tyres at all?


dgfh

We use to run smaller tubes on bicycles quite often to save weight. Could be a reliability issue if it is too much of a stretch. Certainly the rim size must be correct, but if the tires a little bigger the latex tube will stretch a little and be sightly thinner wall thickness; less thornproof.

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Post by gravity » Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:39 pm

Bg or anyone,

I see a 2.80-4 and a 9-3.50-4 (tire sizes) in slicks showing up on searches; no spec sheets but the 2.80-4 appears to be a little lighter and they are both cheaper. The 2.80-4 uses the same tube as the 8-3.00-4. Any experience with these?

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gravity
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Post by gravity » Sun Jan 02, 2011 6:21 pm

A 2.5" rim was recommended as I recall and that should be an inside measurement. If I find it again I will post it.


Bg

Found the spec. sheet; it was for the 9-3.50-4 size. So a little over 2" may be good. This recommendation was for lawn equipment (different kind of loadings) so the size rim that works for us may be different.

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Post by JoshuaBonora » Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:21 am

Did he seriously just quadruple post?
:P

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DirtDave
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Post by DirtDave » Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:24 am

JoshuaBonora wrote:Did he seriously just quadruple post?
:P


that may be a record....McCarver look into this!!!
stylezofnz wrote: (will throw in a free blowy to sweeten the deal :D)

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gravity
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Post by gravity » Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:58 pm

I should be kicked off the forum. Hey they were short posts:)

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Post by BgSurfer » Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:00 am

Quadruple posts. Sheesh... that's nothing, especially with a 10-min time limit for editing.

I have never tried the smaller smooth tires. Didn't know they existed. I need all the width I can get.

As I take my rear tire pressure past 21 psi they begin to start breaking loose easier in tight cutbacks. 21 psi provides good rear tracking, like the fin of a surfboard. Lean forward for acceleration. I think the 33:21 psi ratio (front:rear) may increase my front tip angle a little, giving me a bit tighter turning radius also. But I may be able to go a little higher psi now because I have been refining my weight distribution for hard lean tight radius cutbacks lately.
~~~~~

Keeping the Stoke
http://www.bgsurf.blogspot.com/2009/10/street-carver-keeping-stoke-riding.html
The older I get, the better I was...
Ride what you like. :cool:[color="Green"][/color]

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Post by gravity » Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:53 pm

Bg and all,

Here is a spec. sheet for the 9x3.50-4 but the price is not good here.

[url]http://www.jedstirestore.cohttp://www.surfingdirt.com/forum/newr ... ail?no=823[/ur

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gravity
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Post by gravity » Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:24 pm

Bg and all,

The 2.80-4 should be a slightly narrower tread width and I am not sure about height, I cannot find spec. sheets on most of these tires. The only advantage for boarders may be less weight and lower price. The contact patch should be a little less. However, with the same width rim available, the GI rim at 2"+ looks good; could make the narrower tire with sidewalls pulled wider by the rim more efficient and an equal or better tire patch?

Smalltires.com has, they claim online, the 8-3.00-4 for $9.02/tire and 2.80-4 for$7.39/tire. Shipping to me would be $14.00/4, and much less per unit in volume.

For a gravity kart I wonder if the 9x3.50-4 tire on either a GI or Azusa wheel may be the cheap/fast/light option. Fifty mph on a tough turf tire designed for 10 mph; what do you guys think? The best price I found is $7.99 at Palemettospecialtytire but give Jed's credit for having a spec sheet.

http://www.jedstirestore.com/servlet/Detail?no=823

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BgSurfer
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Post by BgSurfer » Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:58 pm

gravity,

I'm certainly no pro on tires. But for my 3 wheel recumbent speeder, probably won't way much more than 40 lb with seat, I am confortable with the concept of the 8-3.00-4s at 50-55 mph. I just don't think the load is significant compared to riding mower and rider at 500+ lb -- especially at 4-ply.

The only issue that has even crossed my mind is tire and hub balance. But I feel that the small diameter makes that a non-issue. With a brake, you can always shut it down if it starts vibrating too much.

Prototype-I had 9" street tires (60 psi, rated for 75 psi, looked like car tires) and rear street 16" BMX tire rate for 100 psi. I estimate I had it up to around 40 mph -- sound of wind in the helmet (rode a motorcycle for 3 years before deciding they are suicide machines). No wobbles, but at top speed it didn't want to turn quickly. Deck length and stance were wrong though. The rear disk brake gave me a false sense of security. If you go to my picture blog, you can see the runway under the Need for Speed.

I had Proto-II up to an estimated 30 mph, Cheng Shin 8-3.00-4s up front on MBS Tris, an offroad 12.5" bike tire/rim, 25-35 psi (ask Jimmy Chaos about this wheel) and and no brakes. Really nice traction and a wide turn into a 90 degree bend/turn off at 30 mph -- nothing sudden though.

If you want some of Dave's GI hubs, don't wait too long. I just bought half of his hub inventory. His price on Cheng Shin tires includes tubes -- hard to beat for testing a prototype.



~~~~~
~~~~~

Keeping the Stoke
http://www.bgsurf.blogspot.com/2009/10/street-carver-keeping-stoke-riding.html
The older I get, the better I was...
Ride what you like. :cool:[color="Green"][/color]

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gravity
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Post by gravity » Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:27 am

Bg and all,

I am still researching my options for the gravity kart. I am still even considering longboard urethane wheels; like luge, like butt board. Personally I like pneumatic tires for ride comfort and cornering, but the urethanes are faster (even for their small diameter) than rubber for their coasting ability. Dave's deal is spot on (price wise) for your needs, but my project is still in the research phase. I may jump onboard and purchase Dave's package in the next few days if any product is left.

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